Myths. Myra scared of the dark, what do think the light was like sleeping out near the old cottage on the Moors high above with the land with no street lamps and alone, what do you think she did when she says she was left alone? This was after 9 pm as evening murders so if she did become this entity it was Jekyl and Hyde and her sister was feared by girls at school who took a shine to David. In Harrison he tells of what David said of Maureen as a street fighter and I take his word for it for he would ask the locals and seek to validate it. Myra is said to have been a wicked opponent in Judo at the school before Ian Brady and to through her size 16 frame around with girls less heavy so a sheep and a lad would be no problem and it is said she would not release the Judo hold so she exerted pain as she feigned playing the role. It is all there. She was a victim if you like of a term called ‘ABANDONMENT RAGE HOMICIDE’. Read it in journals and it defines the rage of being ousted as she was unlike Ian who had a family, two in fact and was only taken from this nurture of matriarchal support due to the Scottish system of parent responsibility and penal welfarism instead of prison at a very young age. Read Muncie on this as to the difference in Scottish Law and English Law as to the ways that youths were treated in juvenile delinquency and crime.

I believe him to show autistic tendancies even he does not see. Once as a child I saw four kittens thrown live onto a furnace by a child of six, he laughed and did not see what he had done. Yet there are children who bang their head and self harm or harm others who have no conscious knowledge of right and wrong and for that read the books on Melanie Klein and Winnicott as to internal and external conflicts of subconscious and conscience and that of Anna Freud and Freud on rethinking the way to treat mental illness as in clinical psychology.

Read and see that counter transference is an act of inflicting pain on someone that that person has had visited on them and internalised to become a sadist, a bully, or a victim which takes back, hence Maureen relayed an idealised Myra. Siamese twins I would call these two as one head and two separated bodies in counter transference played out to each other. Use the terms and understand them where others failed due to her gender and counter transference that Richie rightly notices as a none scientist. Myra was the monster, Brady the Rasputin with the bell of wise words in poetry to land him like a fish on a hook.

Yes, I had read, I think in Staff, that Pauline had dated David Smith and was probably perceived by Maureen as a rival to his affections. Do you think that Maureen suspected or knew of Myra’s involvement in Pauline’s murder?

Also, Staff indicated that Maureen was weak and that Myra protected her and did her fighting for her. But since you were around those parts back then, are you saying that Maureen was equally capable of physically fighting and defending herself, that she was as physically hard and tough as Myra?

Do you think Myra and her policeman lover were running a prostitution ring? Was Myra still planning to become a policewoman at the time she and Brady were arrested?

One thing that does not make sense to me is the murder of Evans, as well as why Brady involved Smith in the murder of Evans. Sick as he was, Brady was secretive and paranoid, carefully planning for a murder and listing details of the disposal of evidence, more “organized”. The murder of Evans is what I think would be termed as “disorganized” – Screams and shouts that could be heard by neighbors through paper-thin walls, blood all over the room, seemingly no plan for the immediate disposal of the body, etc.- extremely chaotic It does not seem to fit Brady’s previous, more “organized” pattern.

Even though it appeared that he was grooming Smith, why would Brady have trusted him at that point of time? I have read in more than one account that Myra hated Smith and wanted him away from Maureen. Was this some plan to involve and frame Smith, pinning Evan’s murder on him, and thereby getting rid of Smith? Or was Brady so drunk and delusional that he believed he could trust Smith and that the horror of the murder would force Smith into submission and secrecy?

Do you think that Myra and Brady had a sexual relationship? Was sex with Brady some kind of promise or reward following a murder? I read that Maureen said Myra had become abnormally modest after hooking up with Brady. She did not want Maureen to see her nude body, which Maureen said was not her previous behavior. Was this because Myra bore the marks of sadistic treatment by Brady?

Also, Maureen said that Myra had become afraid of the dark and that when she slept with Maureen at her and Smith’s apartment (while Brady and Smith sat up talking), Myra always wanted a light on in the room. Maureen stated that this was unusual behavior for Myra. I believe that this new fear of the dark was the main reason why Myra wanted the young neighbor girl Pat to accompany her and Brady to the moors at night- so that she would not be alone sitting for hours in the van while waiting for Brady. Plying the young girl with alcohol probably ensured she would not remember anything that went on.

I am presently reading the trial transcripts (Goodman), then Harrison and Potter. I will try to find a copy of “For the Love of Lesley”. As I mentioned previously, I have read Williams and Staff. Williams goes into Brady’s background but barely touches on Myra’s, whereas Staff goes into Myra’s background, but barely touches on Brady’s. Of course, much of Staff’s is Myra’s account, so who knows.

The three cases that have interested me are Starkweather/Fugate in the late 50’s in Nebraska, Fred/Rose West, and the moors murders- all three couples cases. I find similarities between Fred and Rose West and Hindley and Brady- one being the pupil, once indoctrinated, escalates the atrocities and in some aspects overtakes the master.

I have appreciated this site and the input from others here- especially you, Pauline, as you know information that I have not found elsewhere. I wish you, and all others involved, success in finding little Keith.

Read Fred Harrison of Genesis of the Moors and look at the time there is a street fight and where Myra was. It takes over one hour today to go from here to the Moor Road so why go. The answer is it was a Millwards customer round, or a place where sex could be undertaken with a vehicle on a layby pre-Ian. Ian has never ever shown affection to a female and he has never after going to Glasgow had any feelings for any female. His adoration is in fact a way of seeing as he did Hitler a role model of fear that Myra had. Myra held in her school days as did Maureen a fear over the area of locals and had street fighting power of known Judo holds until pain was felt as verbal.

Myra in taking Pauline allowed Maureen the lad she had set her sights on, and also she had her under her spell for good. Read also ‘For the Love of Lesley’. But to understand them you had to live in their slum conditions as one of younger age as I did. Belle Vue she never chose for her victims, yet they were there. This was personal and she hated being ridiculed. A pram to place a body in. Think of it. What sister losing a child would let her sister do this unless it had been used before. It was common to use a coach pram to transport coal, logs, etc and have women do it, therefore the person pushing the pram would be Myra or Maureen as to the body of Eddie of AEI, of Trafford Park. Work the rest out for yourself and the answer is yes, Myra was a resident not a Scot and a feared local who had gone past her sell by date and was known to bed married men before she met the gullible virgin called Ian Stewart Brady.

Are you saying that you believe- possibly- Myra to be the actual murderer, as well as the perpetrator, of the murders? Are you saying that Ian might not have been present during one or more of these murders?

Did Ian in fact swing the axe and deliver the deadly blows to Edward Evans, as stated by David Smith? Assuming David’s Smith’s account of the murder is true, it certainly indicates Ian Brady was indeed capable of carrying out extreme physical violence.

Or are you saying that Ian was merely Myra’s “puppet”, goaded into doing the killings for her?

Is there somewhere where I can read statements made by Paul Reade, David Smith, and others like you who are more familiar with the history and alternative accounts of Myra, Ian, etc?

I have read Duncan Staff and Emlyn Williams. Williams does not even touch on Myra’s troubled background, stating that Myra went to live with her grandmother because the grandmother loved her so much and wanted to alleviate her daughter’s overcrowded household. No mention of Myra as a tough street bruiser.

If those who say that my view is wrong then they should try and do in reconstruction the timelines of what is supposed to have happened. Yes, my book is called ‘Cuckoo’- More to the Moors than Murder.

I think Silly Old Twit would be an admirable critic and editor as his prose of writing is more grammatical than mine. Yes I think I would like that.

Historically you have Fred Harrison’s evidence of what Pauline Reades’ brother said of Myra’s whereabouts and the fact if Pauline had been found raped and murdered so much in view of the road as the photographs show then either Ben Boyce, the van owner who’s grocery round van it was would be up for the hanging rope and the man to condemn him Norman Sutton who was a police officer who bought the van weeks after.

Take this scenario. Paranoid psychotic Myra takes the van with her sister to the Moors. Who teaches her at night on this long eroded road that is often closed due to flooding and subsiding strata? Who knows when old Harold Crowther comes out to tend his sheep and shoot stray dogs at night, and who knows when the request stop bus comes along, and who knows when the haulage trucks come along? The answer is the ‘watcher’.

The fact is Ian Brady was both a gambler and a drinker and a thinker. He was a stay at home bod left to his own fantasies of doing the ‘Great Train Robbery’ or being as he drew akin to the feared Krays.

Yet these formed with the birch in Borstal as a failed punishment regime of torturers who were paid to inflict and break the spirit of those incarcerated for their pleasure. Now some hated the job and some loved it. Yet this system of penal punishment defied penal welfarism of liberalist endorsement of reprogramming the individual.

Having a record was a status in those days to some, and a disgrace to others especially Mrs Brady, and his stepfather who Ian took the name of. We have not heard of their own pain and stigma and sure as eggs is eggs if Myra Hindley had not had the tools for this damaged dreamers lust and spite he would have sedately spent his life in the pink racing post and told ‘tall tales’. He might have even been a little man in the office reading and being absent from society within his own autistic world.

We put him there with the conditioning of ousting him from Scotland and making him different, an outcast that aquires hate, hurt and rejection. Seeing in the archives in Glasgow the dirty urchin faces was no different than many ghetto towns of industrial backwaters where the returning war injured lived in squalid conditions of absolute poverty. Bed and more babies were a ‘hide’ and a sanctuary from the morbid outside after a pint and a fag in the working mens club. Apt – as few were on secure employment, the coughing of injured lungs and blue haze of smoke with the dismal lavatories must have been to Ian the same as to me – repulsive.

Yet if we watch the film with Michael Caine and Julie Walters in the reconstructing of this divide you can see what the director is showing to the audience in ‘Educating Rita’. ‘There must be other songs to sing’ as a clip in the club where mother is bored rigid and the rest sing as collaborative monkeys to a tune that is ringing even in bedtime rumbles in their ears.

I give this as a background set to the life Ian rejected, that Myra embraced. Her Gorton was the fruits of her and her families endeavours to secure the most as the ‘fittest’ on the block. Her days of creating mayhem and her sisters are spoke of by those they terrorised, not least Gloria who set her sights on David Smith. David in his writings shows Maureen to be a battle axe even at her teens, a street fighter he says in his own words. So who taught her? Myra and if the book is right her sparring bare knuckle street fighter father. See Lost Boy for the words taken out of Myra’s own currently known set of testimonials given to Duncan Staff.

Myra Hindley made so many copies with different endings before she took the literary courses and religeous theory with the Open University. She had become in her youth in the 50′s a fixture for all the other incomers to stand back from.

Ian Brady as he was became another song to sing. That is why Ian Brady is still where he is. He could and did not want ever to make a home for himself and care for himself.

There is the evidence of his carers who he lived with, Ma Sloan and his stepsister who took the brunt of this, and the other step brothers too. Plus this days in the room at his mother’s. Myra had to stalk and wait in the road in the car for a glimpse as Ian shared tea and custard pies in the parlour of this humble home with starched white lace tablecloth and clean hearth. Her job as waitress in the quality tearooms tells me she would be prim and houseproud and obedient to her husband.

It is hard to say what this woman thought of the peroxide hard faced bitch outside in the cars each night as dusk fell and children swore as they passed to go to the corner sweetshop. But one thing is sure. Ian with his head in the bookies was safe from ‘her sort’ or so she thought. He never left home by all accounts like the cat that wanders and comes back after its ‘entertainment’.

It is still my view that Ian Stewart Brady did not actuate all the masterminding that he takes credit for in the stalking, predation, planning, torture and murder, and if we are to believe his story the robbing of Pauline’s necklace or envy of it by Myra where lorries hurtled past to overnight parking slots.

If anyone has any real experience of this woman and not of what dad did then kindly add it to Silly Old Twit who I am sure will collate folk stories and history of the era and the people. An outcast is made by society.

So we make monsters when we shun the disenfranchised. Will we never learn that this mental clock ticks in some to the ends that are lit with a ‘roman candle’ such as Myra Hindley, the cuckoo chucked out of the paternal unit at four.

If you know anything about Brady you will know the above is one persons oppinion and it is so very wrong.My father knew Brady in the days of Manchester, he to was a bit of a lad him self.